Wednesday, 8 February, 2012

Bucket-list sub folder - The mock-up

In the bucket-list - there is a sub-folder. The furniture sub-folder. I add to this folder way faster than I take from it. Some of the pieces on the list include some sort of Seymour inspired piece - likely a sideboard, something Ruhlmann, and something Danish and Sam Maloof inspired - dining room chairs and a table perhaps.

I love chairs - and they have always terrified me. Of all the furniture we make, the chair is the one piece that has the most interaction with our bodies. This means when it is done poorly - it is usually a catastrophic failure. When it is done well however, you have a piece of furniture that hugs you in a way that is comforting and relaxing. You should melt into it and not actually ‘feel’ the chair beneath you.

For me, there are 2 major criteria for a chair. Firstly - it must be comfortable. If it does not meet this criteria - it is not worth taking any further. Once the comfort hurdle has been crossed (which is no small task), it becomes a very compact opportunity to make something beautiful - the second criteria. There is a long list of other criteria that are also important - things like keeping it light weight yet strong, building it in such a way that it is repairable, keeping it somewhat compact so it does not take up too much room around a table. Chairs are a complex dance of angles and human anatomy - there are few if any 90 degree angles or flat surfaces.

We are fortunate to have several very well made, comfortable chairs. We have a wonderful chair by Brian Boggs and a set of 6 Windsor chairs made by Bruce Chambers. These 7 chairs are the ones that everyone fights over when we have large gatherings. You can sit in them for hours and not get a sore butt. Everything is where it should be - the arm rests are in the right spot, at the right angle, the height of the seat allows your feet to hit the ground, the seat is not lumpy and does not have any pressure points, and the back rest allows you to sit at a comfortable angle for eating as well as relaxing afterwards.

The first step was to figure out what type of chair to make. I have always loved Danish chairs and Sam Maloof’s chairs. From what I have read, Sam was heavily influenced by Danish furniture and when you look closely at his work, it is readily apparent. This was an early decision for me - to explore and work within a Danish and Sam Maloof inspired style.

One of the biggest appeals of Sam Maloof’s chairs is how sculptural they are. They look to be as much about artistic expression as they do a place to sit - and they strike this balance wonderfully. I was drawn to the idea of working with spokeshaves, rasps and files - something I have become familiar with when making planes. This settled it for me - I wanted to make a sculptured chair.

With the recent purchase of 220bd/ft of 8/4 curly black walnut - the ‘materials’ issue was a bit of a no-brainer.

It was time to gather information and start the process.

I have a rather extensive collection of web images of Sam’s work as well as various Danish chair makers (Wegner, Moller). Jeff Miller’s excellent book, ‘Chairmaking & Design’ was also a valuable resource. My Tilt-box also proved to be a valuable tool. I used it to compare angles on Brian’s and Bruce’s chairs and cross checked them with the information in Jeff’s book. It is amazing how close everything was - from seat angles, to the angle of the back rest as it relates to the seat, the width and depth of the seat. All these measurements and dimensions fell within a very small margin and suggested that I was on the right track.

A very close friend in Toronto has this amazing Rosewood lounge chair that I have always loved. The arms in particular have always captivated me. Of course it could have something to do with the fact that it is Rosewood... but the arms are beautiful to look at and extremely comfortable.




I wanted to see if I could capture the look and feel of these arms.

A friend lent me a DVD on Sam Maloof which provided a great deal of information and insight into how he worked. The way he sculpted the seat was of particular interest as were the integrated joints he used to connect the legs to the seat.

I purchased 30 bd/ft of 8/4 Poplar and jumped in with both feet.




(the poplar seat blank with the center piece shaped on the bandsaw)


I used the same technique as Sam - cutting 3 degree angles on some of the individual seat boards to help achieve a pleasant curve. I also used the same joints for attaching the front and back legs to the seat.



(the front leg joint cut into the seat)


I decided to tilt the back legs in by 3 degrees as well as rotate them in 5 degrees. This made for a lot of head scratching when figuring out how exactly to cut these joints, but it really helped give the chair a very solid look and a graceful hourglass shape.

These next 2 images show the progress of the arm and back rests. At this point, I was using the mock-up as a working drawing - taking it apart, cutting a bit here, drawing a bit there and placing cardboard templates to get a sense of how it might look. I decided not to glue anything together so I could take everything apart to do any additional shaping and to allow me to make a set of templates as I went.








One of the early shaping decisions was to avoid round or square looking legs. A triangular based shape was really appealing and I had a notion of how this might transition into a detail at the top of the back leg.




This was the first arm I made. It was pretty stiff looking and way too flat, but did have a detail that I really liked - the cut-out where it joined the back leg.




This detail would end up being repeated several more times throughout the chair.




You can see the intended shape of the arm rest drawn on the end. You can also see some of the shapes drawn on the back rest. It was at this point that I decided to work on one half of the chair at a time - essentially giving me 2 prototypes in one.




The next day I continued refining both the back rest, the arm and the front leg. This was a really exciting stage - things were finally starting to take shape and some of the visual bulk was being removed.



(top view of the arm rest joining the back leg)





These next 3 shots show where I ended up. The shaping under the arm worked out very well as did the front leg.










The arm rest needed some serious changes - it is way too straight (and too long) and the transition into the back leg is too abrupt. Glad I had a second arm to mess with on the other side.
All was not lost with this side though, and I decided to continue shaping the back leg to see if the cut-out on the arm would work with my vision of the top of the back leg.




I also ended up shaping half of the back rest - to make sure the transition between the leg and the back rest would work.







The hard line created at the top of the back leg extends down the entire length of the back leg.




I was quite pleased with how this turned out and was happy with the interplay between the flourish at the top of the leg and the arm rest.

It was time to work on the second arm.




Here is the set-up I was using. A large plank clamped to the bench with the chair clamped to the plank.




The second arm is closest to the camera and was a big improvement from the first arm.




This second arm also allowed me to start working out some of the joinery details. I used a 1/2"D, 2" long dowel to join the top of the front leg to the arm rest. I used a Domino to join the back leg to the arm-rest.







One other detail was to modify the back edge of the seat. By mirroring the sculpted area where you sit, it created a thinner looking seat and created a better transition into the back leg.







This also allowed the hard line that runs from the top of the back leg to the bottom to be highlighted a bit more.



At this point, I was pretty happy with the prototype. Happy enough to proceed to the walnut at least.

18 Comments:

Blogger mokusakusensei--woods teacher said...

Your prototype is really inspiring. I am not sure that I have the patience to spend the time on a prototype and then do the real thing. I guess that I am a little too much type A personality. I have 4-5 projects in the works at any one time because I find I get too bored and have to move on.

8 February, 2012 6:23 PM  
Blogger Mark Harrison said...

Love the design and the description of the process you used to arrive at it. Inspiring stuff.

May I offer one suggestion? Lighten the look of the front legs slightly by accentuating the curve at the bottom of the legs (the back part). Alternatively, make the front legs more sabre like on the front. I wouldn't go overboard so let me accentuate the slightly bit.

Maybe it's just me but I like slender "ankles" on furniture legs.

Of course you are free to ignore my "advice" :)

I've been repairing antique balloon back chairs recently. I had to shape a new balloon top for one chair. The tools I found the most useful are the Stanley 100 and 100 1/2 block planes. I don't have originals. Mine are the bronze ones that Woodcraft used to sell. Lie-Nielsen and Veritas make other versions that would work equally well.

I also have an Auriou rasp but the one I have is really too fine for rough shaping. Despite what everyone says about the current Nicholson rasps, they still work well enough as rough shapers. No they are not as nice to use but hey! They work.

8 February, 2012 7:31 PM  
Blogger Kevin Brehon said...

You're idea to make the chair in halves is a great one. I wish I could see things the way you do. The first arm looked great to me, until I saw it next to the second one. Is that something you saw right away or did you have to spend some time with it to decide it had to change?

8 February, 2012 7:55 PM  
Anonymous JeffB said...

Great looking design. The second arm was definitely a big improvement. Kinda funny how the first arm looked pretty good until you compare it with the second.

I have a Maloof inspired chair (and rocker) on my bucket list as well. I am not as adventurous as you though. I bought the Charles Brock plans.

8 February, 2012 8:08 PM  
Blogger Konrad said...

Mokusakusensei,

This is the first chair I have made and I was really nervous about the entire process. spending a week making a mock-up was a new process for me as well - but in hindsight - it was the perfect use of that time. I will always make a mock-up from here on in.

Cheers,
Konrad

8 February, 2012 8:29 PM  
Blogger Konrad said...

Hi Mark,

Thanks for your comments. I should confess that the first walnut chair is already completed - I am just getting around to writing up the blog entries about the process. Your leg suggestion is one that has already happened:)

I will write more about the actual tools I used for shaping in a later post, but there were Auriou rasps everywhere! And a pair of Boggs spokeshaves.

Cheers,
Konrad

8 February, 2012 8:32 PM  
Blogger Konrad said...

Hi Kevin,

The first arm started looking wrong pretty early in the process... but I wanted to see it through as there were a lot of other details I had to work out. There was even a further evolution of the arm from the second Poplar arm to the first walnut arm. I will point it out in the appropriate post.

Cheers,
Konrad

8 February, 2012 8:34 PM  
Blogger Konrad said...

Hi Jeff,

You are the second person to comment that the first arm looked good until the second one came along.

I had a chance to see one of Charles Brock’s Maloof inspired dining chairs at WIA last October. It was good to see it in person and gave me insight into what I wanted in a chair. I would recommend finding a copy of FWW’s woodworking profile DVD on Sam Maloof. There are some key dimensions and valuable insight into the process he uses. If you have any technical questions - feel free to send me an email.

Cheers,
Konrad

8 February, 2012 8:39 PM  
Blogger Art said...

Chairs terrify me also... I'll be watching!
The comment about the dowel + domino... was that just the mockup or also how you plan to assemble the final product?

Oh, and that walnut is gorgeous. Any chance that place is on the London side of KW? I'd love to go spelunking for stuff like that!

8 February, 2012 10:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Really interesting, Konrad. As you say, a chair is perhaps the most challenging of woodworking projects. Yours is looking really good.

Cheers ;-)

Paul Chapman

9 February, 2012 6:42 AM  
Blogger Tico Vogt said...

Fantastic post, Konrad. Very intelligent and successful approach.

9 February, 2012 8:35 AM  
Blogger Jim Shaver said...

I am thinking about aking one the same, I bought the dvd about a year ago, we think alike! Always fun to see where you go with designs my friend, I know the one I saw was amazing!!

10 February, 2012 9:00 AM  
Anonymous Chris Bame said...

Great post Konrad. Love your process. There is know better way than a full scale mock-up for a chair.

After doing the whole set I'll bet you have a good feel for that new bandsaw too !!

Can't wait to see the finished chair in that wonderful Walnut you found.

10 February, 2012 10:12 AM  
Blogger Konrad said...

Hi Art,

Dowels and Dominos for the final chairs.

The walnut is not your side of K-W - but then Southern Ontario isn’t really that big anyway. It just depends on the distance one is willing to go to get good wood. So far - England is the furthest for me:)

cheers,
konrad

10 February, 2012 1:42 PM  
Blogger Konrad said...

Thanks Paul. Stay tuned for further installments.

Cheers,
Konrad

10 February, 2012 1:43 PM  
Blogger Konrad said...

Thanks Tico. The next phase of the chair is to live with it for a while and see if there are any comfort bugs to work out. So far so good, but there are a few minor tweaks I am going to look into.

Cheers,
Konrad

10 February, 2012 1:44 PM  
Blogger Konrad said...

Thanks Jim.

This was a similar learning curve to planemaking - although there is way more information on chair making than planemaking. When you get to it - I would be happy to pass along what I have learned from making one chair:)

cheers,
Konrad

10 February, 2012 1:45 PM  
Blogger Konrad said...

Hi Chris,

The bandsaw has already become an indispensable tool. The sad (little) Laguna has seen very little action ever since.

Glad you have been enjoying the process - stay tuned for part II next week.

Cheers,
Konrad

10 February, 2012 1:47 PM  

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Monday, 30 January, 2012

Vancouver bound!

This is just a quick announcement for anyone in the Vancouver area. I will be joining Lie Nielsen for a hand tool event being hosted by Dan Clermont at Clermont’s Ultimate Tool Supply in Burnaby BC. It is this coming weekend - Feb. 3rd and 4th - here are the details.

4 Comments:

Blogger Kevin Brehon said...

Please let me know if you ever come to Saskatoon!

30 January, 2012 8:26 PM  
Blogger Konrad said...

Hi Kevin,

Will do. Saskatoon is on the list.

Cheers,
Konrad

31 January, 2012 6:41 PM  
Blogger Dave Beauchesne said...

Saw Konrad in Vancouver on Saturday - World class planes, world class guy!

Dave Beauchesne

5 February, 2012 10:04 PM  
Blogger Konrad said...

Hi Dave,

Nice to meet you this past weekend and thank-you for the very kind comments.

Cheers,
Konrad

8 February, 2012 4:14 PM  

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Saturday, 21 January, 2012

The last planes of 2011

2011 was a rather amazing year. It was the tenth year of Sauer & Steiner Toolworks and while there was not an official celebration - there were wonderful things happening all year long. The first Damascus sided plane, the pair of Bayfield planes, the rebate panel planes the K13 and my dream bandsaw - the Y30 snowflake. In my wildest dreams, I could not have predicted such a year.

As I walk across the yard to work every morning - with a coffee in hand, my camera over my shoulder, I am already smiling by the time I get to the door. I often stand on the landing just inside and look around. A mountain of wood - and the most beautiful bandsaw greet me - what more could I ask for.

Thank-you to everyone who has made the last 10 years possible. Your encouragement, support, insight and generosity have allowed me to continue. It has been a staggering adventure thus far.


Curiously - the last 4 planes of 2011 were all unhandled smoothers and all SNo.4’s.



This is a SNo.4L - 7" long with a 52.5 degree bed angle and a 1-3/4" wide high carbon steel blade. Desert Ironwood infill.














Next is a SNo.4 - 6-1/2" long, 1-3/4" wide blade, 52.5 degree bed angle and Honduran Rosewood infill.












These last 2 are a matching pair, and have a really great story behind them. They were commissioned by a friend of mine who wanted a gift for a life-long friend. This friend had helped him out during a difficult time in his life and this was his way of saying thank-you. Not only was this a great feel-good project - but they were picked up in person by both the person who commissioned them, but also the unsuspecting friend. That was a pretty great moment.



These SNo.4’s came from the same piece of Desert Ironwood.















2012 is already looking very promising - two more ‘K’ series planes are in the early prototype stages and I am working on a large furniture project that has been on my bucket list for a very long time.

10 Comments:

Blogger Richard Wile said...

Love that first plane Konrad, the desert ironwood is one of the nicest woods I have seen yet. It is getting daily use on my own major furniture project!!

21 January, 2012 9:32 AM  
Blogger Tom Fidgen said...

Happy New Year Konrad- as always, amazing work.
"perfectly imperfect" ; )
All the best in 2012.

21 January, 2012 9:59 AM  
Blogger Kev said...

Konrad great work in 2011, looking forward to some amazing posts in 2012.I'm sure you will please your wife and family as well as all the folks that follow your work,I'm sure your table and chairs project will be the bomb!!!!


God Bless!

Kev.

21 January, 2012 7:12 PM  
Blogger Jim Shaver said...

Konrad, it is a joy to see someone working with a passion, you make incredible tools for us to use, but more so the joy it brings you is a mutual reward. Thank you for making the Twins, they are beautiful beyond description.

I look forward to each blog update and witnessing your changes with time, you only get better my friend.

All the best to you, Jill and the Boys, the best is yet to come, Happy New 2012!

22 January, 2012 9:47 AM  
Blogger Jamie said...

Konrad,
Can I wish you a very Happy new Year, every time I use my laptop, one of the first 'must do' tasks, is to check what you have posted. I just love the Desert Ironwood timber with the metal sides of the Twin SNo.4's, your work just inspires me, please keep up the fantastic posts. I must read through them at least twice a week.

All the best, Jamie

22 January, 2012 3:25 PM  
Blogger Konrad said...

Hi Richard,

Glad you are enjoying the plane and getting so much use out of it. Yeah - that ironwood is pretty amazing stuff.

Cheers,
Konrad

22 January, 2012 9:44 PM  
Blogger Konrad said...

Happy New Year to you as well Tom. Perfectly imperfect is a good description:)

Cheers,
Konrad

22 January, 2012 9:45 PM  
Blogger Konrad said...

Thanks Kev. Yes - we are all looking forward to the new additions to the dining room.

Cheers,
Konrad

22 January, 2012 9:47 PM  
Blogger Konrad said...

Thanks Jim.

The twins were a pretty great project - on so many levels. I still have to pinch myself from time to time - just to make sure this is all real.

All the best to you and yours for 2012.

Take care,
Konrad

22 January, 2012 9:50 PM  
Blogger Konrad said...

Thank-you Jamie for the very kind comments - and Happy New Year to you as well.

Really glad to hear you have been enjoying the blog so much - it makes all my midnight entries feel worthwhile.

Best wishes,
Konrad

22 January, 2012 9:54 PM  

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Saturday, 7 January, 2012

Magnificent - with apologies to Jill & Stan’s daughter


(a shot of the upper wheel covering for Al)








Stan arrived during the holidays with a bright and shiny white box, some wire, testing tools, a laptop and and a hair dryer. Everything made sense but the hair dryer.

We mounted the VFD to the wood clad steel column behind the bandsaw and then started with the wiring. Everything made sense until Stan wired the hair dryer and placed it on top of the bandsaw table. He said it was to test the brake. Sure enough - when he cut the power - the hair dryer started up. He asked me to check to see if there was warm (or hot) air coming out of it. No - not really. Hmm he said. Fired up the laptop and started reading.

Now I have to admit - I was completely out of my element here. My very basic understanding of VFD’s came from Stan the week before. I had no clue what the hair dryer was really doing - but it sounded like a clever cross-check to me.

There was a blade on the saw now, so we had a real-world set-up. We took some readings as we started and stopped the machine. We delayed the start up to 6 seconds to lower the start up draw and then focused on the brake time. Stan was reading furiously and changing things on the VFD and every time we turned it off - the hair dryer would come on. But not always in the same way. One time, it came on with such force that it launched itself backwards and almost into the path of the slowing blade. That could have ended badly. Another time, it gave a bright red blast of really hot air.

There was something more to this hair dryer than I was aware of. So I asked. Stan said that he had looked into braking capacitors and they were at least several hundred dollars for a suitable one. As he was pondering the function of the brake capacitor he realized a hair dryer could accomplish the same thing. So he ‘borrowed’ his daughters hair dryer (checked the Ohm’s), to test it out.

Stan was not quite sure what was happening and checked the specs printed on the hair dryer. He asked if we had one and if we could use it. I said sure, ran into the house and grabbed the dryer. He wired it up and turned on the bandsaw. When he killed the power, the new hair dryer blasted red hot, sparked, and then gave a last breath of smoke. It was cooked. There was a pursing of lips, then a slight smile and a knowing nod. Not a word was spoken and the other hair dryer was hooked up again.

All the adjustments he was making to the VFD had to do with controlling the manner in which the brake was applied. The feedback was the hair dryer’s response. It was at this point that Stan commented; “I am not sure if the hair dryer will fit with your aesthetic or not.” This is the point where I fully appreciated the situation - the hair dryer was the brake capacitor!

I just smiled a slow smile as this all sunk in. Are you kidding me - your daughters hair dryer as a vital part of the Y30 - this is going to be wicked! I told him I would have no problem with it - there would be a way to make it look good.

In Stan’s words - here is what is happening;

“The hair dryer is working as a braking resistor. When given the command to slow down, the VFD turns the motor into a generator and the kinetic energy in the bandsaw wheels is converted into electricity, and then heat by the blow dryer.”

The ideal situation was for the hair dryer to come on for several seconds as the bandsaw stopped. That would indicate that it was functioning properly and dispersing the heat. After some further tinkering, We had the blow dryer running for several seconds and the bandsaw stopped within 13 seconds. The hair dryer came on with an even blast of heat - not red hot, and not a strong blast. We had found the sweet spot.

It was at this point that Jill came into the shop, hair wet and asked if I knew where the hair dryer was. Stan and I looked down at the dead dryer on the shop floor. It was all we could do not to burst into laughter. I explained the situation quickly followed with, “I will pay for a new hair dryer”.

It was getting late in the day and we were out the door to go for dinner with some friends, so Stan packed up and left me to wire up the on/off switch and deal with the hair dryer.

The next morning, I got up early, excited to finish the installation. It was too early to go to the hardware store to get a surface mounted electrical box - so I decided to work on the hair dryer. I made a plywood mounting bracket and placed the dryer just above the VFD.



We had taped the switch in the on position.

Onto the low voltage switch. Stan has said a light switch would be sufficient, but I was a little worried about it accidentally being bumped on or off. A push button switch made more sense to me. As we have been renovating our house, we have been replacing the original push button switches with ones that are up to code. So I called my electrician to see if he thought I could use one of the old push button switches from the house. He reminded me that every woodworking machine must have a magnetic switch (so if the machine is running and the power goes off and then comes on again - the machine will stay off). The VFD is a magnetic switch so I was covered that way - and he thought the old switch would be perfectly good.




It felt pretty neat to be re-using one of the old switches on the bandsaw - somehow the 100 year old brass plate seemed like a much more suitable solution than a plastic or galvanized plate.





Here is a quick shot of the VFD with the dryer.

One of the other things Stan and I tested was the amperage draw as the saw was cutting. Stan asked if I had a large piece of scrap wood to test it with. I handed him a large piece of scrap cherry (several inches thick) and he shoved it through the saw faster than I have ever cut anything in my life! At full running speed, the saw was drawing 5 amps and the needle barely moved as he slammed the wood through.





I have been using the saw for almost a week now and I have to say - so far, it is exceeding my expectations in every way. The first real work I did with it was cutting the perimeter of a chair seat. This is something I could not have done with my Laguna bandsaw - the table is not large enough to support the 20" seat and there is not enough room for the seat to fit between the blade and the column. And the cutting action is completely different. It is a little hard to explain really. It is incredibly smooth, there is no vibration to the table at all and even the sound is different. The blade tracks perfectly, cuts perfectly and seems to be taunting me with “is that all you got little man?” All I have to say is the 10" thick rosewood is coming soon enough.

11 Comments:

Blogger Adrian Baird Ba Than said...

All I have to say is,
"You have 10 inch thick Rosewood?"

7 January, 2012 10:39 AM  
Blogger robert said...

The hair dryer is an innovative solution that creates a problem.

It works really well right now, all nice shiny and clean. However, this is a wood shop, and even with great dust collection there will be dust.

Have you considered what is going to happen when those nichrome wires in the dryer get coated with wood dust, then heat up and air is forced over them.

I would be really sketchy about this as a long term solution. There really has to be a better solution. Maybe a big set of parallel wired resistors?

7 January, 2012 4:52 PM  
Blogger Konrad said...

Hi Black,

10" wide at least - for resawing into handles.

Cheers,
Konrad

7 January, 2012 5:41 PM  
Blogger Konrad said...

Hi Robert,

Thanks for your comment and concern. I have a similar concern and will certainly keep an eye on it. If it becomes an issue - I will make a change.

Cheers,
Konrad

7 January, 2012 5:43 PM  
Blogger Steve Kirincich said...

Hi Konrad,
This is a bit off-topic, but have you ever had an allergic reaction caused by exposure to rosewood dust? Thanks.

Steve

7 January, 2012 9:45 PM  
Blogger Konrad said...

HI Steve,

I have been fortunate that I have not had a reaction to Rosewood dust or any other dust for that matter. I am quite careful though and will not work with Cocobolo because it is a known trigger wood and has forced many woodworkers into early retirement.

Cheers,
Konrad

7 January, 2012 9:53 PM  
Anonymous Chris said...

!0" thick Rosewood Niiice.
I like that Walnut seat blank too! What do you have planned for that?
Boy you really got me thinking about my own bandsaws inadaquacy. Only so much tuning you can do to a 14" Delta

7 January, 2012 10:13 PM  
Blogger Jim Shaver said...

I will never look at a hairdryer again without thinking of this story I think this story is wonderful!!

Thanks for taking the time to document this adventure, I can't wait to pop over and see the saw in action, then the sound of the hairdryer, perhaps you could attach a bellows to the hair dryer that inflates as the saw comes to a stop, maybe an old fog horn, LOL :-)

8 January, 2012 11:15 AM  
Blogger Pete said...

Hey Konrad, another household appliance that could stand in for the hair dryer would be a clothing iron. If you found one with the same wattage rating as your hair drying it would be a drop in swap. It would not be a fire hazard because nothing would get nearly as hot as the element in your hair dryer.

Btw, I'm very, very jealous of your new saw! I'm drooling on ~20" Grizzly saws but they aren't as classy as yours.

Pete

8 January, 2012 11:37 PM  
Blogger Lee Laird said...

Konrad,

Awesome addition and great find. Those old saws have so much character. My MM16 bows in humbleness, to your Y30. ;)

Cheers,

Lee

31 January, 2012 10:48 AM  
Blogger Konrad said...

Thanks Lee. Hey - your MM16 is a fine saw too. My Laguna 16 has served me very well for a long time - it does not owe me anything.

Cheers,
Konrad

31 January, 2012 6:42 PM  

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Thursday, 22 December, 2011

Magnificent

For years now, I have been talking about - well, belly-aching about, finding a large bandsaw. My current bandsaw is a 16" Laguna - the first model with the ceramic guides. While this saw has been a good little saw for me, it has many limitations. Most of these limitations have to do with capacity and are not really a fault with the manufacturing. Most modern bandsaws tend to have really large re-saw capacity, but woefully inadequate table sizes. They also tend to have welded steel frames and are much lighter than vintage machines. And a personal pet peeve - they have very poor dust collection - more on that later. Vintage machines on the other hand, tend to be massive beasts, with huge tables and very limited re-saw capacity. I suspect the idea of re-sawing veneer was a crazy notion 60+ years ago - you could easily buy thick ‘real’ veneer. This was my great conundrum. Do I get a really big new machine with way more re-saw capacity than I will ever need in order to get a large enough work table, or do I look for a vintage machine that has the rare feature of a large re-saw capacity?

Here is my quick list of criteria.
- re-saw capacity of at least 16" (to match my 16" jointer)
- enough power to re-saw 16" comfortably
- tables at least 24"x30"
- at least a 28" wheel to give me decent cross cut capacity
- dust collection that actually works

I had narrowed it down to 3 machines (in no particular order).

The Agazzani B32 has great specs. Large table, great re-saw capacity, plenty of power and all the modern features one would look for. I had tried an Agazzani a few years ago and noted it seemed nicer than my Laguna. Dust collection - not so great.

A Zimmermann. This is a very rare bandsaw and I was only made aware of it by a friend of mine who has one. These were patternmakers saws and have similar specs to the Agazzani, but made to an even higher standard (so I am told). They are almost impossible to find used so it quickly fell to the bottom of the list due to availability.

A Yates Y30 ‘snowflake’. These are usually pre-WWII machines and are about as easy to find as a Zimmermann. They are called snowflakes because the upper wheel cover is perforated and looks like a snowflake. As soon as I saw a photo of this saw - it was placed that the top of the list. All things being equal... this machine is the most aesthetically stunning bandsaw I have ever seen (that also meets current safety standards).

So the hunt began.

The Agazzani was an easy find. Jesse at Eagle tools was a great help and was able to get all the information I needed - and then some. This very quickly became the only new bandsaw I was considering.

I put out a few feelers for a Zimmermann and eventually found one. The asking price was $10,000.00 which was more than I was willing to spend.

In February, I came across an ad for a Y30 and was directed to Pleasant Street Machinery and this link in particular. I called Pleasant St. and spoke with both Joe Snider and Ben Rock (the owner). Within 20 minutes, I knew I was at the right place. They both had a passion for vintage machinery the way I have a thing for planes. Everything felt right. One of my requests was that the machine be overhauled and any restoration work (other than new paint) be taken care of. This is a massive saw and I do not have the space, or frankly the expertise to know how to do it. I also asked that the tires be replaced. Over the course of the next several months, Ben or Joe would send me updates on the progress. They even posted a few on YouTube - here and here. It was at this point that I was grateful that I had not taken on the restoration!

There were a few setbacks and delays, but on December 5th - I was told it was ready to ship.

There is another whole side to this adventure that I have not mentioned yet and it has to do with the limitations of my workshop. I have an pair of doors that give me access to our parking spot behind the shop (below the bell shaped light).



Trouble is, these doors are not as big as they should have been (not a word Raney). The opening was 7'1" from the bottom of the header to the concrete floor. When I made the doors, I used some re-claimed white pine from the drive shed of our first house. They were a little under 7', so I had to fill in some space at the top of the door. I am sure you can see where this is going. The Y30 is just over 7'6" tall with the upper wheel in its normal position. The upper wheel does come down quite a bit - to just under 7'... without a pallet.

So, on my 40th birthday - I spent most of that unusually warm Saturday taking the doors off and stripping it down to the framing. I then re-assembled everything and put it back in place with a few strategic screws. The plan was to be able to pull the screws out and knock out the top trim work and gain the much needed 5" of extra height. That was the plan anyway.

Ben and Joe were very aware of my height restrictions and the thought of tipping a 2,300lb machine to wheel it in was pretty much out of the question. So they made a special pallet that was just high enough for a pallet jack to squeak under. It was made from oak 2x3’s and was constructed in such a way that the sled feet could be removed if we needed another 3/4".

I watched the Y30 makes its way from outside Chicago to a terminal in Cambridge Ontario - about 25 minutes from here. From Cambridge, we had made arrangements to have it transferred to a lift gate truck so it could be lowered to ground level. In a perfect world, the truck would back up to the shop, lower the machine and we could wheel it in with a pallet jack - easy-peasy. I called the shipping company in Cambridge to request that they call me an hour ahead of time so I could prepare the area and remove the door trim - I did not want to waste the drivers time. I also mentioned that they should bring the shortest lift gate truck they had as maneuvering might be an issue. The next day, while on the phone, there was a knock at the door. I went downstairs to find the truck driver standing there - in front of an 18 wheeler. So much for planning ahead.

And it was raining.

Thankfully, my friend Terry was available to help me out and he arrived within 10 minutes. I took the truck driver back to the shop to show him the situation. His first comment was “why didn’t they put it on a smaller truck?” My thoughts exactly. He thought it was worth a shot though. I knew what we would have to do. There was no way he could back up to the shop door, so Terry and I started building a platform on the gravel driveway so we could keep the saw at the same height as the shop floor. We laid down a piece of plywood and then a layer of 2x10’s and then another 2 layers of plywood. In the rain. The truck backed up to within about 7' or 8' - that was as close as he could get. Then he opened the truck door. They had put the Y30 onto another pallet to make it easier to move. We were now at least 5" too tall to clear the shop door - the bottom pallet had to come off. So we unloaded the whole thing onto the plywood platform and watched the truck pull away. Still raining.

Keep in mind, this is a 2300lb bandsaw, and while it is not as top heavy as most bandsaws - it is a scary looking monster when resting on a plywood and lumber platform on a gravel driveway and all you have is a narrowish pallet jack. There is a very short list of people that I would be comfortable helping out with a situation like this - and Terry is the top of the list. He is likely more safety conscious than I am - which was perfect.

The first challenge was to remove the bottom pallet. We raised the whole thing with the pallet jack and cut off as much of the lower pallet as we could. Through a process of raising everything and blocking in various stages, we were eventually able to remove the lower pallet completely.

We took a deep breath and moved it into position. Sadly, we were so focused on getting this done that I did not take any time to take any photos - which is too bad - it kinda looked like a war zone with pallet parts and blocking everywhere. This is the first photo I took...



... showing the whopping 1/2" of wiggle room we had to work with. But... the saw made it into the shop safely.



Here is another shot of the saw which shows the oak pallet. Despite all the rain, the saw was totally dry.



And the saw unwrapped.



And the back view.

I had previously downloaded a copy of the manual for the Y30 to find some of the specs. This is when I learned that the blade length was 17'2". I contacted my blade supplier and ordered some blades for the saw. They were to arrive within a few days.



(the motor plate)


One other major issue was power. The Y30 has a 3hp, 3phase direct drive motor. No chance of swapping the motor or getting 3 phase power, so I had to choose between a phase converter or a VFD. Phase converters are great if you are running multiple 3 phase machines - one phase converter will do an entire shop. Plus they are quite economical. This is my first and only 3 phase machine though, and there were several aspects to VFD’s that were intriguing. They offer speed control and you can make a lot of adjustments to starting up and shutting off.

Stan - a childhood friend of mine, is a bit of an electronics wizard. Actually - he is a wizard on many fronts - his machine shop is pretty amazing. He also sells and modifies VFD’s and was willing to help me out with this project (he also lent me the pallet jack to move the Y30 around).

Stan came over on the weekend with a 15hp VFD. His experience with old motors was that the stated hp was usually a conservative estimation and that this one would act more like a 5 or 6hp motor. The 15hp VFD would be able to handle whatever the motor threw at it. We pulled the plug from my Laguna bandsaw and used it for the Y30. We connected it to a dedicated 30 amp/220v receptacle and turned it on. The lower wheel came to life and within a few seconds it was up to speed. It barely made a sound. The motor was drawing 5-6 amps at full running speed. We turned it off and the wheel was still turning 20 minutes later. Granted - there wasn’t a blade - but still pretty impressive. We started it up again and measured the draw on start-up. It was in excess of 20 amps on start-up so we turned it off again and Stan re-programmed it to start up slower - he added about 4 seconds to the start-up time. This time, it maxed out at a 10 amp draw. That was pretty cool. Stan also noted that from a safety perspective, we should strive to have the wheel stopped within 10-15 seconds of hitting the off button. This could be done by reversing the flow of electricity and using it as a brake. Ok - this was really cool! He also said we may want to consider a braking capacitor. This would add further braking capacity to the VFD. We also recognized that all these numbers and readings were likely going to change once we had a blade on the saw. The blade would add resistance, but connecting the upper wheel could potentially speed things up given the added weight. But this first trial was very encouraging and I committed to a VFD over a phase converter.

One really nice benefit of the VFD is that I could remove the 3 phase magnetic switch box from the back of the saw. you can see it in the above photo of the back of the saw - that massive green box in the bottom right corner. With that gone, I could move the bandsaw 10" closer to the post and regain some much needed space.





Here is a shot of the 3 phase box removed and the gap it created. You can also see the 15hp VFD on the floor beside it.




This is the 3 phase box. I will certainly keep this in case the next owner of the saw (Riley or Lucas maybe?) needs it.

The next task was to move the bandsaw into position. I was not able to use the pallet jack for this so I decided to use a crowbar and some blocking. I cut a notch into the oak sled foot and used blocking and a crowbar to slide the saw along.



Once I had the bandsaw backed up to the post, I wanted to move it over a few inches to line up the inside edge of the frame with the edge of the post. I placed 2 long maple runners under the bandsaw in the other direction and moved it over.



Here is the Y30 in its final position. I placed it on 3/4" thick pine feet just in case I ever needed to get under it for any reason. There are notches cut into the feet so a pry bar or jack can be placed under the main casting.

There are several features of this saw that are quite astounding when you consider it is over 70 years old.

The first, and maybe most important one is dust collection. It is my impression that dust collection on bandsaws is always an afterthought - even on European machines where safety and health concerns are usually a little more important (think Festool). My Laguna bandsaw is a perfect example. The only dust port on the saw is in the back, bottom left corner - as far as you could possibly get from where the dust is actually created. I ended up building a plywood box that encloses the entire area under the table just to capture the dust.




It work very well, but the whole time I was making it I grew increasingly annoyed that I was doing this, and not the designers and engineers at Laguna. And not to pick on Laguna - this same lack of attention to dust collection appears across the board.

Contrast this with this 70 year old machine. There is a dust chute fully integrated into the main casting of the Y30. When I first opened the stove doors to the lower wheel, I noticed an unusual area just above the wheel.



It only took a second to figure it out - the dovetail on the right was the best clue. It is a slot which is meant to hold a piece of wood that deflects the dust into the chute. Brilliant! I grabbed a walnut scrap and with the blade removed, fit the dust deflector.




By manually rotating the wheel, I was able to cut the zero clearance kerf into the deflector. I also made a zero clearance insert for the table and will make new pairs of inserts and deflectors as I explore different blades.



The dust chute is a straight shot down the inside of the casting and ends up at the bottom corner just below. The outside diameter of the outlet was a perfect fit for a 6" flex hose.

Which brings me to another aspect to the saw - which is related to dust collection. I knew that the trunnion on the Y30 and Y36’s were massive, but this was the first time I had seen one in person. Massive is an understatement! The trunnion on the Y30 is 13" wide!




This is totally overkill, but I suspect there is a hidden benefit beyond the obvious. The trunnion is so massive, it completely encases the underside of the table including the lower blade guides. The effect is the same as my plywood box under my Laguna - the dust is captured.



Here is a shot of the front of the bandsaw and the cover plate to the trunnion.



With the cover off, you can see the lower blade guide. With the trunnion being so large, there was ample room to comfortably adjust the lower guide.

Once I had put my dust collection system back together, I turned it on to see how much suction there was. It was able to pull sawdust off my hand in front of the walnut deflector. Finally, a bandsaw with decent dust collection.

At this stage, all that remains is to get the 7.5hp VFD and install it. Given that it is 2 days before Christmas, I think I will have to wait a little bit longer before I can take the first test cut.

25 Comments:

Blogger Kevin Brehon said...

Wow. That is one massive machine. Does your table saw seem a little redundant now?

22 December, 2011 10:40 PM  
Anonymous Michael Gatling said...

Konrad,
Great post! Sweet saw! Now I can't decide what I want (need?) worse, a K13 or a Y30......

23 December, 2011 12:58 AM  
Blogger Richard Wile said...

Good Story Konrad, lots of work for an important upgrade!

23 December, 2011 6:22 AM  
Blogger Konrad said...

Hi Kevin,

The table saw has been somewhat redundant for a long time already. It is only used as a cross-cut sled or for the odd piece of plywood. I will not rip solid wood with it. Ever. Which meant my Laguna did 97% of all the wood cutting.

Cheers,
Konrad

23 December, 2011 8:54 AM  
Blogger Konrad said...

Hi Michael,

That is pretty funny. If you find a Y30 - get it - I plan on making planes for a while yet:)

Cheers,
Konrad

23 December, 2011 8:55 AM  
Blogger Konrad said...

Thanks Richard. Next time you are over you can try it out if you want. But consider yourself warned... you know what happens when you visit... :)

Cheers,
konrad

23 December, 2011 8:56 AM  
Blogger mckenzie said...

Ah man, tool envy over here. I've seen a Y30 and Y36 in person and they're quite impressive machines, i know you made the right choice. I have a vfd for my disc sander, and although i do like all the features they offer, i wish i bit the bullet and got a rotary phase converter (the machines i'm adding tend to be 3 phase). I'm no electrician but i think a 3 hp motor will act like a 3hp motor, unless there's something seriously wrong. A 7.5hp vfd might be over kill, and they get very expensive after 5hp.

Congrats!

Tyler

23 December, 2011 11:17 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Konrad,

I'm delighted that you finally found your snowflake. I don't think you'll ever regret it. You really can't do better. I look forward to seeing updates once you start using the saw. 30" is a great size. They're not nearly as common as 36", though.

Dan

23 December, 2011 11:55 AM  
Anonymous NIels said...

Congratulations, best self-bought christmas present ever!
That's one sexy beast from a bygone era. I can't wait to see some of massive resaws you pull off that baby.
Cheers,
Niels

23 December, 2011 3:34 PM  
Blogger mokusakusensei--woods teacher said...

I taught at a high school in Utah and I had a 36 YA. I timed its start at 14.5 seconds. Smoothest bandsaw ever. The saw was sold when they tore the old school down and made a new shop in the new school. I have no idea how much it sold for, but I know that it was less than $1000.

23 December, 2011 8:37 PM  
Blogger Konrad said...

Thanks tyler,

I noticed the Y36? in the background of your radial saws post. funny how you start seeing them everywhere once you are aware of them. I have gone for 10 years without having to deal with 3 phase - but you may be right in the long run - who knows where all this may end up. At this point, I cannot imagine replacing my 16" jointer for something bigger... but who knows. The reason for the 7.5 Hp is because it has a better capacity of slowing the motor down once you hit the stop button. That was the theory anyway. I will certainly write another post once the Y30 is alive.

Merry Christmas,
Konrad

24 December, 2011 8:13 AM  
Blogger Konrad said...

Thanks Dan. I can hardly wait myself. I am hoping there will be some time next week to install the VFD and fire it up. I am not sure why the Y30 is less common than the Y36 - maybe worth asking at Yates.

Merry Christmas,
Konrad

24 December, 2011 8:15 AM  
Blogger Konrad said...

Thanks Niels - and I agree - the best self-bought Christmas present I have ever bought! And don't you worry - there will be a post as soon as something big gets sawn in half.

Merry Christmas,
Konrad

24 December, 2011 8:17 AM  
Blogger Konrad said...

Hello Mokusakusensei,

Wow - that must have been a sad day to see your shop of 31 years torn down. And to see the Y36 disappear. Hopefully it went to a good home and is still being enjoyed. I will see if we can time the start up of the Y30 to compare them - thanks for the reference time.

Best wishes,
Konrad

24 December, 2011 8:23 AM  
Blogger Tico Vogt said...

Congratulations Konrad. The whole operation, from how you determined what you were going to acquire, to the rehab of the machine, and to the decision over the VFD is impressive. It's enough to cause a certain amount of envy in your readers. To top it off you have a friend like Stan.... where do you find guys like that?

I'm curious about the fantastic design of the vented upper door. It must have been costly to manufacture. All purely for aesthetics?

My take-away from reading this post and Ron Brese's about moving his huge machine this Spring with Jameel's help is that the cost of hiring professionals to do the complete move has to be factored into the price tag. I have one former friend who turned sour on me after being asked to help me move a 20" Rockwell band saw into my shop when it was delivered ahead of schedule and dumped in the rain on my driveway. An hour of awkward back twisting and knuckle bashing was something he never seemed to get over!

This summer I read a fantastic biography of Samuel De Champlain which has fired me up to travel north next year. Maybe I'll swing by to have a re-saw.

24 December, 2011 8:47 AM  
Blogger Konrad said...

Thanks Tico.

It was a really long process, and while there were moments when I grew impatient - I am glad I waited to find my dream saw. I think there are others that would have done everything I wanted - but I would have been somewhat disappointed. As you observed - the look of this saw is in a league of its own.

There were a few manuals on-line that I downloaded and I one of them mentioned the vents in the upper door. It said “...which provides for air circulation, cuts down windage, and is more rigid than screen or sheet metal.” The door itself is extremely heavy so I can see the comparison to a sheet steel covering. but for me - the aesthetics of those top wheel covers is just pure inspired design. I am working on a blog entry that is all about this - once functionality has been solved - it is the designers job to impart beauty.

Your comment about having friends helping with moving things really struck a chord with me Tico. It is a really important point and has me thinking about the manner in which my circle of friends help each other out. This could be another blog entry too!

By all means - if you are ever up this way please feel welcome to stop by for a visit and a re-saw.

Merry Christmas,
Konrad

24 December, 2011 9:34 AM  
Anonymous Chris Bame said...

Awesome saw Konrad. And I thought my new Festool cordless drill was a good self-bought Christmas present. I'm curious what is the smallest blade you can run on a big bandsaw like that?

25 December, 2011 4:45 AM  
Blogger Konrad said...

Thanks Chris,

Don't apologize for your Festool drill - that is a pretty awesome self-gift too. And this was a once in a lifetime thing for me. It was a very long time in the making.

I have a 1/2" blade on it right now (not running yet), but the tension guide has a marking for 1/4" so I would assume a 1/4" blade would be fine too. I have used only 1/2" blades on my Laguna for the last 6 years for everything from re-sawing to cutting out plane parts. I will start there on the Y30 and see how it goes.

Cheers,
Konrad

26 December, 2011 9:23 AM  
Blogger Al DaValle said...

Konrad,

That is exciting! I have an Agazzani I bought the 3-phase version. I bought it from Jesse at Eagle. They were great to work with. It was an ordeal getting it into the basement and setting up the phase converter but well worth it in the end. I don't know if I will ever be able to get it up those stairs however!

But let's see an image of the top wheel...the snow flake.

Merry Christmas!
Al DaValle

28 December, 2011 9:40 PM  
Anonymous Eric said...

Konrad,

Wow, congrats. Gary Rogowski at the Northwest Woodworking Studio has that same bandsaw. I've seen it many times and it is an impressive piece of old iron. Rogowski is a bandsaw afficionado (and loves old Yates machines), so if you have any questions about it, you might give him a shout. A picture of Gary's can be seen here at one of his student's blogs.

28 December, 2011 11:21 PM  
Anonymous Jamie Hubbard said...

Hi Konrad, I'm pretty new to this (the technology side), love the bandsaw, it just looks like a brilliant machine.
I've been looking at your blog for a while now, your planes are fantastic, and your cabinet making is great, and the photography is excellent too.
I'm just in the middle of being made redundant from a boat builder in the Midlands in the UK, and really want to get back to woodworking full time, and making planes. I met up with Bill Carter nearly 20 years ago, at a David Stanley Auction, while I was at college (I'd left work to do full time college) and that’s when I made my first plane. A trip an hour or two up the road was all it took to be totally bowled over by Bill and his fantastic creations, I wasn't with him for long, but the impression on me was so great. So now I’m going to set up on my own, to make furniture and planes. I’ve started a blog, www.worcestershirecabinetmaker.blogspot.com I hope it’s not too similar to yours, but it’s by no means set up properly yet, I’ve got pictures to take, and add to the title, and shift some things around, but the blog is just so useful for keeping in touch with progress. I will be meeting up with Bill and Sarah in March at the next David Stanley tool auction, where I hope to purchase one of Bills planes.
It will be a while before I’m set up properly, due to extending the house to create more room for the family and a workshop for me, If you get time have a look.

Many thanks

Jamie Hubbard

1 January, 2012 11:01 AM  
Anonymous Wilbur Pan said...

So jealous. Raney told me about your bandsaw/door issues. Glad to see that it all worked out.

2 January, 2012 10:53 PM  
Blogger Konrad said...

Hi Al,

The only down side to all this I feeling badly that I did not support Jesse at Eagle Tools. He was a great help every time I contacted him. I know the feeling of not wanting to move... the more I pack into my shop... the more I dread the thought of ever having to move it!

I will post an amateur photo of the upper wheel covering in the next post.

Best wishes,
Konrad

6 January, 2012 10:14 PM  
Blogger Konrad said...

Hi Eric,

Thanks for the link. I have it running sweetly now, but if I have any questions - I know who to check with.

Cheers,
Konrad

6 January, 2012 10:15 PM  
Blogger Konrad said...

Hi Wilbur,

Yeah - Raney rubs that one in as often as he can. Can't say I blame him though:)

Cheers,
Konrad

6 January, 2012 10:16 PM  

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